EAT MY GLOBE: Things You Didn't Know You Didn't Know About Food

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SIMON MAJUMDAR INTERVIEWS YALE PROFESSOR PAUL FREEDMAN: 10 Restaurants That Changed America

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SHOW INTRO MUSIC

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SIMON MAJUMDAR (SM):

Hi everybody and welcome to "Eat My Globe, Things You Didn't Know You Didn't Know About Food." And on this very special episode, I am delighted to introduce to you a friend of mine, professor in the History Department in Yale University, and author of one of my favorite books of recent years, "Ten Restaurants That Changed America," Professor Paul Freedman. Paul, welcome.

 

PAUL FREEDMAN (PF):
Thank you, Simon. Wonderful to be with you.

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SM:
Well, thank you for joining us on the first interview episode of Eat My Globe. And the reason I particularly wanted to talk to you was, we met last year, just to give everyone a bit of an introduction, where we cooked a dinner together for a load of people for the Department of History at UCLA, based on your fantastic book, "Ten Restaurants That Changed America." So perhaps before we go into the conversation, you could tell us a little bit about that book and what brought you to write it. And then we'll go into depth and we'll talk about how restaurants can actually change and how important food history can be.

 

PF:
Sure. I love the fact that you say we cooked together, when in fact you and your team did all the cooking and I merely, sort of, wandered around and commented on things. But I did try to include in this book, "Ten Restaurants That Changed America," a recipe or two from each of the ones I chose. And I chose the restaurants on the basis of influence. So it's not the ten best restaurants that ever turned up in America, it's the ones that I thought affected most of the way we eat now, or what our preferences are. And they begin with Delmonico's in New York. Arguably, the first really successful American restaurant in 1830, and it ends with Chez Panisse, which probably more than any other restaurant, affects the farm to table locavore seasonal ethos that restaurants mostly follow today.

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SM:
And let's begin... Before we go into that in depth, let's actually talk about what restaurants are. Because people have been paying money for food from the very beginning of civilizations, but restaurants are a particular peculiar concept of people dining out. So I'd love to explain to people. When you say restaurants, when they first began originating in the United States in a form that we might understand now and what was there before that, so where you made the kind of cutoff period.

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PF:

Before that, people traveling or going to shopping and fairs, people in cities needed food at places like inns, or take out, or food stands, all of which provided a kind of necessary service. The two things about a restaurant that distinguishes it is that, it's a destination, not just something that is provided for you. So it's the difference between an airport stop and actually going out for an occasion.

 

The other difference is that restaurants offered choices, the others like inns or taverns would have a small list of things available, maybe you had to show up at a certain time. Often at inns, you ate with the company just with everybody at a common table. The restaurant as we know it, develops in Paris in the late 18th century and comes to the United States probably first in Boston in the 1790s.

 

But as I said, the first really successful restaurant that established the restaurant as a prestigious place to go to, and as an interesting place to go to, was Delmonico's in New York and it opened in 1830.

And it's important to say that it was a French restaurant. The early restaurants of prestige, were French, not just in the United States but everywhere in the world because France defined haute cuisine.

 

SM:

So when you talk about restaurants that changed America, I'd love you just to define that for us and how you kind of set out those criteria to talk about them, and then we could perhaps go into the selection of what you selected and how.

 

PF:
Right. Some of the change aspect has to do with introducing new foods or getting rid of, for example, the French monopoly on food that have a certain status that dominated much of the last 200 years. Another would be the development of Chinese restaurants. At what point were so called ethnic restaurants -- Chinese, Italian, Japanese -- established with patrons who were not from China. And it's to serve a non immigrant community. And why did America adopt international cosmopolitan food long before the rest of the world. Until recently in Italy, you ate Italian food, or maybe the food of that region, but a Chinese food was for tourists or for foreigners.

 

I was also interested not only in food and what people ate, but the social context, or to put it a little more interestingly when, for example, did women become important patrons identified with their own tastes? When did restaurants open up with the express purpose of serving women? Looks like about 1900. 

 

Or what is the relationship between black southern and white southern food? Who makes claims for ownership of this? How influential was southern food in other parts of the United States?

 

When did people decide that actually the ingredients were important? That seasonal ingredients that we're at peak quality, we're better than just having asparagus available all year round.

 

SM:
So it's quite a mixture there. And I think the restaurants that you've chosen, I think might surprise some people. And certainly when I first got a copy of the book and was planning the menu, well I think, why don't we just go in and talk about them? I think that would actually be the best way if you don't mind even just going through each of the restaurants.

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PF:

Sure. Sure.

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SM:

Because they all had something to aim. And I'll make a few comments about the dinner as well because the reaction of quite an esteem clientele that we had this dinner, to some of the dishes was really quite remarkable. So why don't you start in the order that you have them in the book?

 

PF:
I will, and just prefacing my remarks by saying again, it's about influential restaurants.

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SM:

Yes.

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PF:

So not all of these would be on my pick of the most wonderful restaurants in American history. As I said, the beginning is Delmonico's, the first restaurant to offer a high level of service and a very large menu mostly French.

 

SM:
Delmonico's also had a tradition of naming dishes after people who ate there. Is that correct as well? You had some of the dishes that were there, became lobster whatever, and then Newburg changed.

 

PF:

Right.

 

SM:

Was that an early tradition to kind of pay the patronage of certain people was important that they would name dishes off to them?

 

PF:
Well, not only people but events. So baked Alaska, was invented there and at first was called Florida Alaska because the inside is ice cream, which is cold, and the outside is meringue toasted, which is hot, and it was developed at the time that the United States bought Alaska from the Russian empire. Alaska was thought to be a ridiculous purchase and derisively known as Seward's ice box, Seward being the Secretary of State who arranged the deal.

So Delmonico's was for 75 years or so, the most noticed restaurant. And so, the dishes that it invented spread out beyond just the restaurant to become recognized specialties of many restaurants across the country.

 

The restaurant Antoine's, which still exists in New Orleans, founded in 1840, is an example of regional cuisine in America. So America has a history of different food from different regions.

 

Louisiana has preserved its regional identity, as regards food the best of any part of the United States. So Creole cuisine of New Orleans, interestingly enough, Antoine's called itself a French restaurant and not a creole restaurant until recently.

 

SM:
And at Antoine's we created Oysters Rockefeller, which were devoured pretty quickly by everybody when we brought them out.

 

PF:
They were even though the formula for Oysters Rockefeller as served at the restaurant remains a secret. And I'm told that only two people know the actual ingredients in it. But what you made was, if anything, better than the originals.

 

SM:
Thank you very much. And I do like the fact that you can still visit that restaurant and get a very definite feel of what it was like in its pomp I think, even when you go now.

 

PF:
Very much so. It's in the same family for its entire history.

 

So my third restaurant was not a fancy restaurant in the order of Delmonico's and Antoine's, but a restaurant called Schrafft's, which was a small chain in the northeast, mostly New York and Boston, founded around 1900. And this was the first chain that I was talking about, that not only catered to women in the sense of offering, what at the time would've been called a dainty or nice genteel environment, but also serving food that it was thought women prefer.

At the time it was thought that women like light entrees and elaborate desserts. So Schrafft's, whose history ends in the 1980s, Schrafft's served sandwiches, salads, a lot of things with cottage cheese and fruit, and also very elaborate sundaes -- banana splits and stuff like that. And it became famous as a place preferred by upper middle class or middle class women, women who worked in offices, but also women who were shopping, or with friends and wanted a place to have lunch.

 

SM:
We created from there a sundae for one of our dessert stations and I know it was very popular.

 

PF:
They were very good at that. I remember going to Schrafft's with my grandmother and my mother wouldn't go because my mother saw this as a place for people like my grandmother. My grandmother didn't work, watched a lot of daytime TV, quiz shows, and soap operas, played Canasta and Mahjong with her friends, and Schrafft's was, I must say it certainly seemed to be for her, but I'm grateful to her because otherwise I never would have made it there.

And then, the next restaurant is Howard Johnson's, which is the one that has the most recognition although it has been almost extinct for a while now. This was at one time the largest chain of restaurants, a thousand branches or so across the country in the 1960s. It served more people than any other institution except the army. It pioneered the idea of predictability, reliability, roadside restaurant, it grew along with the automobile and the highways, and it exemplifies a certain kind of mid century idea of nice, but not overly challenging food. They also were famous for their ice cream, but they also developed all sorts of specialties of which most people of a certain age remember fried clams.

 

SM:
Which is what we created.

 

PF:
Exactly what you created.

 

SM:
At the supper, and I have to say, that's the one that I particularly remember because of all the dishes we created from fine or not so fine dining restaurants, those were the ones that were absolutely devoured by everybody with kind of frightening glee. [laughter]

PF:
It's interesting because it is not an intuitive thing. Most of the country is not close to the ocean. Most people don't routinely eat clams. Howard Johnson, the founder, had to find huge quantities of clams, be able to process them, and be able to convince people in the Midwest or the Rocky Mountain states that clams were delicious. I think the combination of slightly sweet, and crunchy, and salty is something that Americans can't resist.

 

SM:
And I think there's a kind of Proustian element of that. Everyone who was eating that was going, I remember eating these as a child, and even when I was doing some research, I believe that Jacques Pepin's first job in the United States, I believe, was actually cooking clams that Howard Johnson or certainly...

 

PF:
His second job.

 

SM:

Oh his second job.

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PF:

Because interesting enough, he started at Le Pavillon which was the fanciest French restaurant and is one of my restaurants in this list as well. He's the most famous person at least, if not the only person who has worked at two of the ten restaurants. Yes, he left Le Pavillon because the owner of Le Pavillon was an impossible person to deal with, and he went to work at Howard Johnson's partly because it was a good job. He was an executive. He had regular hours as chefs usually don't. And he worked on quality for very large numbers of customers. Obviously, there's some limitations. We're not talking about two order cooking, we're not talking about, particularly curated dishes, but Howard Johnson's under Pepin, used butter instead of margarine, tried to minimize its use of thawed ingredients and to maximize as much as possible fresh ingredients. So, yes. It's fascinating. And then, the work on the fried clams, they really were perfect.

 

At that party that you cooked for, I should point out, the average age was certainly sufficient to have childhood memories of Howard Johnson's for sure.

 

SM:
So let's move on. What would be your next restaurant?

 

PF:
So then I have two foreign restaurants or ethnic restaurants. The first, Mamma Leone's in New York, was an Italian restaurant, very successful, and it represents two stages of Italian restaurants. One is the Bohemian checked tablecloth, Chianti bottle with the candle dripping in it, kind of Greenwich Village or North Beach artistic hang out. And then, the next it expanded wildly. In fact, for a long time it was the largest restaurant in the United States. The Italian restaurant is spectacle, lots of statues, huge portions, singing waiters, flirtatious waiters, what I think of as Ciao Bella atmosphere.

 

SM:

And feasibly large pepper pots.

 

PF:

Incredibly large. [laughter]

The first course alone out of a 12 course meal, was an Antipasto with, I don't know, 10 different little dishes. Quantity, I would say, certainly not boutique quality either. Not very individualized.

 

More people were introduced to Italian food at Mamma Leone's than in any other single restaurant. And it brings up the question of, why Americans love the food of other countries, and is the food of other countries actually what American food is. 

 

And that sort of then lead into the next restaurant, which is a Chinese restaurant.

Seemed to me you couldn't write about food and restaurants in America without having a Chinese restaurant. There are 40,000 Chinese restaurants right now, and that's more than McDonald's and KFC branches combined.

 

SM:

Enormous amounts. Were Chinese restaurants the first example of that kind of ethnic cuisine in restaurant form in the United States?

 

PF:

I'd say Chinese and Italian about the same time.

 

So the 1880s definitely the 1890s are the first time that, let's say, American born people -- not of Chinese or Italian descent, not homesick for South China or South Italy -- wandered into these restaurants and found them colorful, interesting, inexpensive. And these first Americans would be... were called Bohemians at the time, and they're the ancestors, I would say, of Yuppies and hipsters.

 

SM:
Right. And the restaurant was...?

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PF:

The restaurant I chose was the Mandarin. This was a rather high end Chinese restaurant in San Francisco, founded in 1961 by Cecilia Chiang. And she is a legendary figure in the food world. Now 98 years old and still very much going strong investing in restaurants, complaining about the quality of Chinese restaurants, and the Mandarin was founded among other things with the goal of not serving Chop suey. Chop suey was until around the 1960s, the most popular supposedly Chinese dish and it's popularity shows both the love of the exotic and a kind of instinct for inauthenticity that characterizes a lot of American dining.

The Mandarin was the first place I ever had pot stickers, first place I ever had hot and sour soup, Peking duck, a lot of northern Chinese and slightly you know different spicier specialties of the north end of Szechuan were developed there, if not the first place to have them in the United States. The first place that many of us ever tried them and were introduced to a more regional idea of Chinese food.

 

SM:
And I know the red cooked eggplant we cooked from there, and at Mamma Leone's we cooked the Lasagna. A lot of work went into that lasagna. There's so many different levels to the sauces, and the cheese sauce, and the way it was put together was quite some work.

 

PF:
I think that's right. And Mamma Leone's made its own pasta. On the other hand, because they were cooking for so many people, once they were going to lay out a one huge lasagna, they kind of had the wherewithal as well as the labor to lay out 100 lasagnas, and they knew exactly how much they would sell. One of the things about having 2000 customers a night is that there's very little fluctuation. You don't have a lot of unused or an ordered items. You know exactly how many people are going to order the Veal Francese, you know exactly the fluctuation is very small because the sample size is so large. They sold a lot of lasagna. Once you get up to a certain scale, it's no harder than anything else. And it can be also, it doesn't have to be right out of the ... It can sit for awhile, can it not?

 

SM:
Well, it certainly did because we could prepare it in advance. Maybe we'll think about putting the recipe that someone from Mamma Leone's. I actually shared on a website called Chowhound, and that's where we went to, to get the recipe in this instance that we took it from one of the cooks there.

 

PF:
It was delicious. I remember it well.

 

SM:
So maybe we'll share that on the episode. So after the Mandarin and Mamma Leone's, where do we moved to now? We've got a couple, two or three left I think.

 

PF:
Yes. So, African American.

 

The African American restaurant I chose was Sylvia's in Harlem. Sylvia's calls itself a soul food restaurant, but it's also a southern restaurant and also a down home restaurant. And Sylvia Woods, who died just a few years ago, was from Hemingway, South Carolina. So the food is southern, but as brought to the north and Sylvia's was both an important pioneer in food as well as a gathering place for Harlem -- political and cultural capital of black America for many, many decades. And this chapter allows me to consider not just the African American influence on American food, but the degree to which American food really is an outgrowth of African American presence in the United States beginning in the south and then throughout the country.

 

SM:
Yes, that was definitely, I know we made the Peach Cobbler, which I've eaten at Sylvia's and is wonderful, and we obviously did our best to kind of replicate it. But it's a restaurant that I think of all of them, you go and it's just delicious food. And that's kind of their primary concern when you go in there. And I think that marks southern food in a very special way, I think.

 

PF:
I agree. It's a wonderfully welcoming atmosphere. It's a historic place, but ultimately there isn't a whole lot of explaining they have to do about what you're getting, it's not kind of like some high end places now that require the waiter five or 10 minutes to explain how you're supposed to eat it. I have not experienced that at Sylvia's. It's not a problem.

 

SM:
And after Sylvia's?

 

PF:
So then, Le Pavillon. The restaurant I mentioned before that Jacques Pepin worked at first. This was the fanciest, finest, most famous restaurant in the United States from its founding in 1941 until the death of its owner Henri Soulé in the late 1960s. And Henri Soulé died of a cerebral hemorrhage, supposedly yelling at a union representative. And as I said before, he was rather bad tempered guy, but heroic in his own way. Le Pavillon, heroic in two ways. One is that the food really was as good as you could get French food outside of France. And he really went to great lengths to reproduce as closely as possible. And there were certain things he couldn't do. He couldn't reproduce the small farms of France -- the chicken Bresse -- all sorts of ingredients were not possible, but it was a universally agreed to be an extremely fine restaurant.

The other thing is perhaps heroic, was that it took its name from the French Pavilion at the New York world's fair of 1939, 1940. And it had been -- Henri Soulé had been the maitre d'hotel of that restaurant in the French Pavilion, which was wildly popular. But before the fair closed in the fall of 1940, France had fallen to the Nazis, and a number of the people from the restaurant led by Soulé stayed in the United States as refugees. And he opened a year later in seemingly in auspicious fall of 1941, a restaurant named after the French pavilion, Le Pavillon.

And war time rationing and all not withstanding, it was a wild success, during the war, after the war, and until his death. He is, as I said, an irascible guy, he was very discriminating, which customers he liked, which customers he despised, which customers got seated in the section he referred to as "Le Royale," which got seated in Siberia. The bad reputation French restaurants have of being snobbish, which I don't think is deserved, but the reputation starts with him.

 

SM:
And was that the, and I hesitate to use the phrase kind of Big Bang, but was that one of the big introductions of French cuisine that I know, from my visits to New York in the very early days probably I came in at the tail end in the seventies and early eighties. There was a plethora of very fine rather expensive, quite grand French restaurants of which places like Le Cirque I'm going to suggest, and others were around. Was this the beginning of that trend, or was it coming in, in the middle of others that were opening?

 

PF:
It was a revival of a trend that goes back to Delmonico's. So Delmonico's was a French restaurant, at least it called itself. Antoine's was a French restaurant. The whole French restaurant and fancy restaurant industry suffered because of Prohibition. If you can't serve alcohol, it's very hard to make a go of a fancy restaurant. So Le Pavillon is the beginning and the grandfather of the mid, late 20th century, French restaurant revival. So when you first came to New York, there were all these restaurants with "Le" or "La." La Caravelle, Le Cygne, Le Cirque and so forth. And almost all of them were run by people who were alumni in one way or another of Le Pavillon.

 

SM:
So it was really a school of Soulé as it were.

 

PF:
It was. And the big story, in my opinion, of the last 50 years, parallel and importance with the rise of farm to table dining is the decline of French dominance.

 

SM:
Definitely.

 

PF:
Not necessarily the decline of French food, but the end of France defining what is serious food and what is not.

 

SM:
Although what I think is interesting and a recent visit to New York, you're saying two very different styles of French restaurant with Frenchette and Le Coucou being two of the most popular restaurants in New York. And almost the people going back to this tradition of particularly with Le Coucou, classic French dining.

 

PF:
I think so, but it's one of a number of trends.

 

SM:

Yes.

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PF:

In other words, it's not that there aren't any French restaurants anymore. It's that, the French restaurants are part of a mosaic or melange that includes high end Japanese restaurants, high end new American restaurants, high end molecular or modernist restaurants. And so, it's the monopoly that's over.

 

SM:
They're no longer the only game in town.

 

PF:
Yes.

 

Then the next restaurant was The Four Seasons. And the Four Seasons in a way reacted against Le Pavillon. It was founded in 1959, deliberately as not French but high end. So it was an early example of a restaurant other than, say a steakhouse, but a restaurant that was fancy but not French restaurant that was extremely beautifully decorated. The interior is now a modernist landmark. It was hard to describe what its style was. The name implies seasonality. And they did have things like foraged greens, foraged mushrooms, they had a herb garden, but they also tended to define season, a black truffles are in season in Perigord, and in Provence, so we'll be serving truffles even though they're hardly local.

So it was a kind of fantastic restaurant with unbelievably varied cuisine in extraordinarily high end surroundings that wasn't French. And it is a pioneer for some idea of seasonality. It is a pioneer, as I said, for being non-French. And it also was the first place that the term "power lunch" was applied to. So particularly, particular kind of socializing, business oriented socializing. Not the first place to invent lunch as a social occasion certainly, but really the way the first to perfect lunch as a deal making occasionally.

 

SM:
The place were plotting and scheming was undertaken over many martinis.

 

PF:
Over many martinis and over fairly simple food, because the idea was to get back to the office and finish the deal, or go on to the next one. So the meal was, might be rather quick, particularly the Grill Room lent itself to this because unusual for New York, the tables were pretty far apart. So you could have a conversation that wasn't overheard. On the other hand, the rectangular space meant that everybody saw that you were there. You knew exactly who was there. And basically, if you were there, you were in the game. And if you were absent for more than a day or two, people started wondering if you'd retired or dropped out somehow.

 

SM:
And then, I think for the final restaurant is a real change. And I think in many ways in my lifetime, or certainly in my lifetime and my recent experiences in America, the restaurant, I think changed the way that we eat and chefs think now about food. Do you think that will be fair? Perhaps you could name the restaurant and tell me if I'm just making this up.

 

PF:
Yeah.

 

The restaurant is Chez Panisse and I've got to say that, when I started this project and told people who were involved with food about it, I'm going to have 10 restaurants, very often the first thing people would say is, Oh, well Chez Panisse has got to be in there. And there's been a lot of histories of Chez Panisse unlike any of the other restaurants I wrote about there. There are a lot of accounts of Alice Waters' life career. She has an autobiography, there's a history of the restaurant, there are histories of California cuisine that deliberately try not to make Chez Panisse the entire story. Certainly, it's not the entire story, but it seems to me to be the beginning of the story, without which the story wouldn't have gotten going. And that story is seasonal, local, farm to table, but the particular idea is that food should be good for you, sustainable but delicious.

When I was a student at UC Santa Cruz and at UC Berkeley in the late sixties and early seventies, there was plenty of sustainable food. There was plenty of diet for a small planet food, but it wasn't supposed to taste very good. Or, you know, miso seaweed, brown rice, were supposed to be good. And some people found them good, but not the majority of people. What Alice Waters launched was the idea that the food that comes from small farms, the food that is not from a kind of agribusiness nemesis, or giant, or ecologically dangerous system, is not only good for you, is not only good for the farmers, but actually tastes much, much better. And then, Americans had forgotten what food was supposed to taste like, what freshness really means, what depth of flavor really means. And that's really what restaurants do now.

Not all of them are locavore. Not all of them are a lecturing you about what's happening to the planet. But all of them emphasize flavor and so the blandness, the kind of "okay, but the sauce is what counts" quality of a lot of the food that you must have experienced when you first came here. And that I certainly experienced growing up, that has been replaced by a hardier, more complicated, in a good sense, and more intense above all flavor profile.

 

SM:
Do you think that part of her skill was choosing the right chef partners? And by that, I want to talk about Jonathan Waxman, Jeremiah Tower, people who've gone on to have amazing impact as Waxman still does. And have become great kind of godfathers of the cooking world, you know, still.

 

PF:
Yes, definitely. And there are people who will say, Oh, well, Alice Waters really never was much of a chef, or maybe not a chef at all. But she's not someone who simply ran an enterprise that other people developed the dishes for. She had certain standards, she had a fanatical attention to quality, an unwillingness to compromise, and like many geniuses, a not very good business sense in the short run. In the short run, meaning making one payroll to the next. In the long run, of course she had a genius because in the sense of fame and reputation, she created more than many, let's say, more experienced chefs.

 

SM:
And certainly has created one of the most iconic restaurants have of my lifetime and certainly my time in the United States.

 

When this goes out, the paperback edition of the book will be released.

 

I wanted to ask you the question, does this stop now? I mean, I don't think that we've... this is kind of fossilized thing. There are new restaurants opening all the time, and you've addressed that in the paper back by creating ... talking about some of the restaurants that have come along and are continuing to change the American scene.

So I know we don't have too much time left, but maybe if you could just pick on a couple of ones that you really want to talk about in the new book. Give everyone a little taster and hopefully they will then go out and buy this fantastic paperback edition.

 

PF:
Well, thank you so much for the sales pitch in the paperback edition. [laughter]

 

I have an added section on Ten Restaurants Changing America now. And without going through another catalog, these restaurants exemplify certain kinds of trends like vegetable forward, not just farm to table, but an emphasis on vegetables. Not as renunciation vegetarianism as I'm not eating meat, but vegetables as beautiful, and as hardy and as interesting in themselves. I'm interested in cult restaurants, so there've always been wildly popular restaurants, but not restaurants where you Instagram'd yourself waiting in line. This seems to be something new.

I choose a place called Franklin Barbecue in Austin, Texas. There are lots of restaurants. Every city has some restaurant that you have to line up for hours. There may be another restaurant of its type right around the corner, but no, your friends won't be impressed by the fact that you went to one that they'd never heard of. So I'm interested again, as with the basic list in food, but also food is performance. Food is status, food is fulfilling some desires other than satisfying your physical appetite.

 

SM:
Well, I have to thank you for taking the time to come and talk to us. I think everyone who listens to this will have really enjoyed this episode of Eat My Globe.

 

If you have the opportunity, do go out and get a copy of Ten Restaurants That Changed America by Paul Freedman. You will enjoy it immensely, as I know I did trying to cook a menu that came from it. I really appreciate and look forward to talking to you again when you work on your next book.

 

PF:
Anytime Simon. It's always a pleasure talking to you. Thank you.

 

SM:
Thank you. Thank you so very much.

 

OUTRO MUSIC

 

SM:
Do make sure to check out the website associated with this podcast at EatMyGlobe.com, where we will be posting the transcripts for each episode along with all the references and resources we use, putting the episodes together. In case you want to delve deeper into each subject, there's also a contact button, so please do let us know if there are any subjects that you would like us to cover. And, if you like what you hear, please don't forget to subscribe, recommend us to your family and friends, and give us a good rating on your favorite podcast provider. Thank you and goodbye from me, Simon Majumdar, and we'll speak to you soon on the next episode of "Eat My Globe: Things You Didn't Know You Didn't Know About Food."

The "Eat My Globe" Podcast is a production of "It's Not Much But It's Ours" and "Producergirl Productions"

 

[Chopping sound]

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and is created with the kind cooperation of the UCLA Department of History and its Public History Initiative Director, Karen Wilson, PhD. We would also like to thank Sybil Villanueva, both for help with the research and in the preparation of transcripts.

 

This episode of Eat My Globe, was recorded in the UCLA broadcast studio.

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Published: December 10, 2018

Last Updated: October 1, 2020

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