Eat My Globe

Interview with Rancho Gordo’s Founder & CEO,

Steve Sando

Simon Majumdar (“SM”):

Hi, everybody. Welcome to Eat My Globe, a podcast about things you didn't know, you didn't know about food. And today's interview is with a very special person. Steve is the Founder and CEO of Rancho Gordo, the world-famous purveyor of the most amazing beans. Rancho Gordo beans have been praised by the likes of Saveur, Bon Appetit, the New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and the Wall Street Journal, and many more.

I first met Steve, I can't believe this, 20 years ago in the chat rooms of one of the 2000 era food boards called eGullet. And in the time I have known him, he has grown the size of his bean business from a handful, as it were, to a hugely successful business. And now he has, and I'm going to get a copy of it. It is a magnificent book, “The Bean Book.” It only came a few days ago, but I've been reading nothing else since, and it is beautiful and, I know it's Ten Speed and Ten Speed, their books are always beautiful anyway from when I was working, as you know, in publishing. He has a new book all about beans. So, he called this book, “The Bean Book,” and it was co-written by Julia Newberry. Contains not only amazing recipes, but also has plenty of information about how to prepare them. The types of beans. The book lists at least 50 types of beans and much, much more.

So please, ladies and gentlemen, may I introduce you to the one and only, Mr. Steve Sando.

It's great to see you.

Steve Sando (“SS”):

I know. It's been a long time.

SM:

It has been...

SS:

A few things have changed since 2003 or whatever that was.

[Laughter]

Yeah.

SM:

A lot has changed but I noticed that you haven't and hopefully I haven't apart from a few more grey hairs.

SS:

Time has been such a sweet thing to me. She's been an awful person. But. . . .

SM:

[Laughter]

I'm not, hopefully I'm not. And we'll talk about eGullet and the places where we met, because I think they were really important. But just before we go on to that, you're now the proprietor of Rancho Gordo, as I mentioned. Where did that name come from? Because I, you know, I don't know much about it and I wanted to find out where you came up with that name because that's how I always knew you.

SS:

Right, because that was my login on the. . .

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

. . .boards. You know, I was a serial entrepreneur and did many, many different things from when I was a radio DJ in Italy. I used to work for Esprit, the clothing company, as a young person. I self-published a zine called Mr. Lucky, where I would review jazz mostly from the fifties and sixties. I did all these different things. And the web was coming out and I kind of parked at Rancho, well, I actually was looking for Rancho Grande, which is a famous Mexican ballad or corrido. Allá Rancho Grande. And of course they had been taken in the early days. Then I thought, well, Rancho Gordo is funny. Maybe I should do that. And then I thought I was going to prove that you could lose weight eating Mexican food and sort of create a Mexican food diet, which I never have clearly gotten around to. But so, I just parked Rancho Gordo. And then when I started having, you know, this agriculture company. I thought, I own Rancho Gordo. Why don't we do that? Because it kind of means fat farm, not literally, but somewhat. So, it's unlikely.

SM:

That is brilliant. I love that. Fat farm. I love it. So, as we mentioned earlier, I first knew you on maybe it was Chowhound, maybe it’s eGullet. I think it was one of those. So, let's briefly talk about those because I know when you started, that's how you got yourself very well-known because we had so many people on there, Anthony Bourdain, Thomas Keller, all those amazing people.

SS:

Michael Ruhlman, you know, the early days were heady. And I think there was also Mouthfuls that we were both on. But we have to look at. . .

SM:

Oh, yes.

SS:

Mouthfuls Food, if someone's looking that up, it's still going, I think, but you don't. . . .

SM:

And Opinionated About. Really, was that another one that you went on?

SS:

I was finally admitted and then I never ended up doing it.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

Because it was really not cook or eat. No, but I think eGullet for the first part was really the most important and it was so much fun. And then we had get togethers.

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

I mean, I met Paula Wolfert in person, which was a dream. She had the Mediterranean, Mediterranean food expert.

SM:

Yep.

SS:

She lived right near me. It was really great. And also, I was just starting out, I. . . You don't have that much to do when you start out a new business on some level, you're waiting for the crops, you're trying to figure stuff out. And at least it felt related to the business I ended up wanting to do. And I would really try to not be too promotional too, because I think that was off-putting when people would do that. I'd try to have real discussions about food that wasn't related to what I was doing. And that's why.

SM:

Did it help you as well with your business? Because you, I think you, you know, you met people who would say, well, I'll order X number of beans from so and so, and I mean, did it help as well?

SS:

Maybe.

SM:

Because I thought that's. . . .

SS:

Those people were cheap, think. So, I don't know. They were buying that much. Maybe.

SM:

They were a bit. And I actually managed to get some when I was doing. . . when I was in London. I managed to get some, and yeah, which was very strange. I went to. . . It was a health food shop. And I went there and they had them on sale there, which was, I don't know where they came from, and certainly not from you, but they came there and they were on a stall or a, you know. . . So, I still remember that.

SS:

Great. The problem is that beans are seeds. So, foreign governments don't want foreign seeds that haven't been checked out before they enter the country. So, when I got to Australia, this is probably the worst, but the EC and now I haven't tried Britain since Brexit, but it was really hard. And I think we've got enough business here that we didn't really. . .

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

. . . pursue that too much.

SM:

You've talked about it before we started, but tell us about kind of all the other businesses that you used to do, because that is so, and then we'll talk about, you know, how you went over to beans, but we'll talk about, I want to know all the other businesses that you did and then how you got, got into beans.

SS:

Well, I should start out by saying I founded Rancho Gordo when I turned 40. So, I know there's a lot of younger folks out there who are just tormented about it's not working. I haven't figured out my path. So, I just want to say, you know, as late as 40 for me, you can reinvent yourself. And I actually started writing even later than that. So, calm down, I would say for a lot of people who are really uptight about their futures. So. . . .

SM:

Well, I. . . I was 43 when I first started writing.

SS:

Yeah.

SM:

And even now, you know, I'm 60, there's definitely lots of space for anyone to go into that area.

SS:

For sure. And also, all the things that you hated on the way are actually the things that helps you. Oh. So, like I said, I started as. . .  when I was. . . . Every young person in San Francisco in the 80s worked at Esprit. So, I have no interest in clothing, believe it or not. But it was a great place to work. And I think I learned branding there. So, at the time, I had no interest in clothing, but I mean, it was amazing branding and tribal marketing that they were doing. So, I think even though it probably wasn't a great fit for them or me, I was learning. Then when I went to Italy, I learned nerve because I'm somewhat shy. People don't believe that, but I'm a little bit shy.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

But I thought no one's going to knock on my door and giving me wonderful opportunities. So, you have to learn how to sell yourself a bit. So, I went to a jazz radio station in Milan, Europa Radio, ottantotto punta tre. And I was so. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

What does that mean?

SS:

88.3.

[Laughter]

That was where it was on the dial.

SM:

And you still remember it.

SS:

Oh gosh, yes. Yeah. I went to the door woman, the porto donna, and just left a tape and this horrible message that said, me want fortuno how it’s possible. Yes, be on the radio. I mean my time was horrible. And by the time I got home, there was a call. So, I ended up doing that for a year and a half. And I would make American cocktails and pretend I was at a cocktail party with like Ella Fitzgerald or Frank Sinatra, and then we would play their music. It was ridiculous, but really fun. And then I came home. I thought that's what I would do. And that's when talk radio really took over. So, I started making bootleg cassette tapes of this music I liked. And that led to a catalog, which led to a zine. And the zine led to being covered by Wired magazine, which led to someone saying, oh you should be on this new worldwide web. And I thought that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. So, he put it on the web and then bolted. So then actually I became a web designer. And all these things were almost working, but now it's because of the web design in the early days of the web and e-commerce, I was right on track. So, we have done direct to consumer since the start. So, all the things I didn't like ended up helping me. So, they were all. . . . Since I didn't finish college, this was, this was my college basically.

SM:

That's great. And when you started then, let's talk about the beans, shall we? Because I know that's what. . .

SS:

Yeah.

SM:

. . . most people really want to know. And so, I have told you, so many people have said, oh, you're going to be doing Rancho Gordo. That. . . . He's fantastic. I buy his beans. I buy. And that is, it's just fantastic. Because again, I knew you right at the very beginning. So, when did that love of beans. . .  or did you – like you did – did you have lots of events and things that you could see but beans were an obvious one, or were beans an obvious one?

SS:

Well, I had given up. I thought the last time I was lost a web design job to someone younger and cheaper, I thought, you know what? You're not a good entrepreneur. You should get a job at a big box store. And if as long as you have a garden, you're going to be okay. I'd never garden, but in my head, I just knew if I had a garden, I'd be okay. So, I started gardening and I erroneously felt I had a gift for farming. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

. . . because anyone can grow anything in Napa. It's the climate here is great and the soil is great.

So, I took my tomatoes to the farmer's market and then the farmer's market started far earlier than the tomatoes ripening. I thought, you know what, let's just do beans. That'll carry me through until the tomatoes ripen. And that is the brilliant marketing of Rancho Gordo. It's just, it was.

SM:

And that's. . . . That’s how you started it.

SS:

It is, but of course I tend to go narrow, if narrow and deep, if something is of interest to me, I can't leave a stone unturned. I'll say there's a Brazilian singer named Elsa Suarez. I love her. I went looking, I heard the one album. So, it's like, I can't relax until I've heard everything. And that's. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

. . . the same thing with art. Certain things I like, as you can see in the background, I collect colonial art. I. . . . silver from Cusco from the forties. tend to go narrow and deep. And then once I discovered the beans, the first one was called Rio Zape. And I thought, oh this is like a pinto, which I like. And I grew up, you know, in California. So, we didn't get mac and cheese. We had taco night. It was really.

SM:

Of course, I'm in LA. We still, we still have taco night. I mean, it's something I've. . . It’s something I’ve discovered since I've been here because we, we certainly didn't have taco night in London.

SS:

No, I don't know. I'm not. But when people go on about mac and cheese, I'm like, this is the most insipid dish. I don't know why people get so excited. We had tostadas or tacos. But anyway, the Rio Zape that I ate, the first one I planted, there was hints of chocolate, hints of coffee, and yet it was like pinto. I mean, it was still unmistakably a bean. And it wasn't like overtly, but it was like, this is really different. So, of course, that led to doing trials for as many different beans as I possibly could. And that's how we really got started. And my soapbox was we especially here in Napa, we know every obscure French or Italian winery, we know all the regions. And yet here's a bean that's indigenous to the Americas, and we have no idea what it is or what to do with it. So, I thought, I remember saying this to myself, my success will be when the average home cook gets a bag of Rio Zape and says, oh I'm gonna make this because I know what this is. So, I've still got a long way to go. I've left some room to improve, but we're working on it.

SM:

So, you did a lot of research though, didn't you? I mean. . . . It seems. . . I mean, beans, I have to say, I love them. . .

SS:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . but, you know, there's 50 type of beans. And I've probably, even as a kind of, if I say so myself, you know, a kind of food expert, and I'm using the quotes that, maybe not. . . but I didn't know there was 50 and probably there's a lot more.

SS:

Yes. And until we did this, I mean, I'm not taking credit for everything, but we definitely were a part of the story. Nobody was doing it commercially. It really was a home gardener. I'm saving the seeds, very regional kind of thing. And I just didn't understand why we were having these insipid, you know, kidney beans in the grocery store when something like Rio Zape was available. So that's, and I did research, but research sounds like work. I mean, it was such a pleasure to. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

. . . find a new game and like, oh this is great. And I think my approach has always been not to be pedantic, which would be easy enough to do, but to say, oh here's this neat thing I found. Let me share it with you. It's never been one always eats this green, or this like, here's, I would just got back from Mexico and they puree the black beans and dip hot tortillas in them. And it's called Enfrijolada, but I'm a tourist, so I have to be kind of careful too. But I just think. Here's something cool I found. Let me share it with you has been our best marketing approach and it's natural too. It's authentic. I mean, it's really how I feel about stuff.

There's kind of four main family. Most of. . . . Well, it's so confusing, but in the Americas we have Phaseolus vulgaris, which means common bean. So, pintos, kidneys, cranberry beans, all these go in there. But then the next family is runner beans and those tend to be big and fat and you can eat them when they're starchy and nice, but if you keep pushing them, they are creamy and they have really rather thick skins, but not unpleasantly. There's lima beans or limas and that's Phaseolus lunatus. And when the pod looks like a half moon. So, I think that's why the Luna comes from that.

SM:

Ah.

SS:

And those we do think are from Peru and the Andes. And then finally there's Phaseolus acutifolius, which are tepary beans. And that's the only bean that's indigenous to the US so it. . . and Northern Mexico. And it's a drought tolerant bean. I was growing it and, watering it and doing fine with it. And the plant was doing great, but there was just nothing. And then I thought, well, forget it. This is a waste of time. All of sudden there were flowers and then pods. So, it really loves a little bit of abuse.

SM:

Oh.

SS:

But they're not, they're in my least favorite bean though.

SM:  

But I love the fact that you, A, that you obviously you have favorite beans because you're working with them so much. And, but I love people who do this. So, I've, I’ve met someone the other day who had his favorite insects to be eating. He said, well I eat this and I eat this, but this one I find. And so, I love the fact that people are so, love what they do. So, because I'm much more broad. . .

SS:

Hmm.

SM:

. . . and I eat lots of things, but I don't, and I've never had one of those specifics. But, um, unless it's a Yorkshire pudding, which I do love, frankly.

SS:

Yeah.

SM:

[Laughter]

But when you first mentioned that, you talk about the farmer's market, and I noticed when you were talking about it, you were saying that as well as you growing them, you had to educate the audience who was coming. Or the. . . . And so, I still remember this and this one thing so I remember. . . . You said, you know, you had lots of people coming up and they would like run all their hands through the produce and then they'd go, and so you first. . . that's where you created these wonderful bags that you've got with that beautiful logo on. And I mean, and that is something that I absolutely adore. And I remember that because I think it was like that even 20 years ago or something like that.

SS:

Yeah.

SM:

So, I remember that and I remember seeing that and thinking, that's Steve. But tell me how you started putting them in bags because of these people kind of doing what they did.

[Laughter]

SS:

Yeah. So, I, I used to go to the farmer's market, do it bulk with a scoop and let people help themselves, but they're irresistible. And everybody would say, have you seen the movie Amelie? Which is. . .

SM:

Yes. Uh-huh.

SS:

. . . a really French romantic comedy. That's wonderful. But there's a scene where you can't help herself and she sticks her whole hand in the beans. But, you know, in the early 2000s or so, I think there was swine flu going around, especially in Mexico and people were getting really sick. And then they would touch their faces after they stick. And I thought, I can't do this anymore. I mean, it looks beautiful. And also, it's probably not the best way to store the beans either to have them out in the open and coming back and forth. So that's where we stopped. But what I did is I got a bucket and all the older beans or the beans that had spilled, we stuck them in there and I had a little sign that said, go ahead, you know you want to.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

And then with our, with our logo because we knew photos will be taken and people would just sit there and go, you're right, it feels great. So, they would just touch. . . . We call them the touching beads.

SM:

And I still remember as well, again, reading this, but people said, but you're a loser doing this. Why are you selling beans?

SS:

People felt so sorry for me. I remember I was next door to some couple that had made lavender products and it just was overwhelming the scent and, orchids on the other side. And I had real food and it's like, nobody would talk to me. And the smell of lavender as you're trying to talk about. . .

SM:

Yes.

SS:

. . . you know, safety in food is really hard. And so, while they were waiting, they asked me questions to be polite. I'm just, please don't, I'm good, but that was, you, you pay your dues in the early days. But they wouldn't let me into the Napa farmers market at first. So, I had to go up valley to the Yountville farmers market, which was like really for tourists. It wasn't particularly serious. But fate keeps on happening. That's where Thomas Keller came. So, he walked from the French Laundry to the farmers market. He might've heard about us. And he asked the most intelligent questions. And he had me go through bean by bean describing what I knew about them. And he described. . . .

SM:

What kind of things was he asking?

SS:

Like about texture and flavor and not history so much, but just the quality of the different beans. Cause they really were different. Like this one has a thin skin and then it exudes just a heavenly bean broth or pot liquor. But this one holds its shape, but it's super creamy and it's great in a salad. I mean, he wanted to know all that kind of thing. And he described, I think a soup his mother used to make from canned beans, but you could just. . . . He got this glaze in his eyes of happiness thinking about his mother's soup. And this was what 2004, 2003. So, the most, I mean, arguably the most important restaurant in America at that time. . .

SM:

Yes.

SS:

. . . using as lowly, as something as lowly as beans, which despite what anyone says were not popular, I was so. . .

SM:

No, they weren’t.

SS:

. . . you know, the, the guts to go ahead and do that. Cause he loved it and knowing the difference. So, he left the stall after that. He leaned into me and he said, you know, what you're doing is very important. I like, thank you. I think so too, but you see the lavender and the orchids.

SM:

[Laughter]

Oh.

SS:

But then he left the stall and everybody came rushing to find out what he had bought. And I thought at that point, beans were really for old people who had survived the Great Depression and were nostalgic or kind of crusty, dusty hippies who were buying them in their co-ops and didn't want my expensive new crop ones.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

They didn't want them. All of a sudden, because of Keller, I realized, oh so this is influencer marketing. I mean, this was before that. But I did realize I'm going to market it for flavor because people want something cheap. They want a protein. They actually are really green, but I thought, no, that’s. . . those are all sub stories. The real reason we want to do this is the flavor. And it’s. . . It was right under our nose the whole time. And we, no one, including myself was paying attention. So, I lucked into it.

SM:

So apart from Thomas Keller obviously from the French Laundry, which you know, we've been there and it's a wonderful, wonderful place, what other chefs turned up? Because I believe from that you had just, you know, coming there and going, well we came here to see you because you started doing this.

SS:

Well, there were a lot of local chefs to start, for sure. Someone from America's Test Kitchen came. And they're going to kill me because I'm having a blank now about all the different people. There's a great chef in San Francisco, Stuart Brioza, who has. . .

SM:

Yep.

SS:

. . . State Bird Provisions, was an early one. I will tell you though, I am most comfortable talking to fellow home cooks and I like chefs a lot, but at the farmers market, especially when I got into San Francisco one, they'd come and they'd look at me and they'd look at all the beans that they wanted the black beans. Because nobody knew what a yellow Indian woman was. So. . .

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

. . . it's totally valid that they wouldn't know it, but there is a certain kind of chef that is not comfortable with not knowing, and they need to be the expert on everything. So, they would order black beans because that's all they understood. But since then, I mean, we've had great, I mean, Jose Andres wrote the blurb on the book.

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

And we carry all our own accounts. So, we started looking into distribution and not to be judgy, but it's a completely corrupt system that does not benefit the person who produces the beans. So, we had been carrying our own accounts and that's not what you asked, but I'm having a brain fart about who else we have. But, I mean, all the chefs and we just did a dinner with Suzanne Goin at AOC in Los Angeles.

SM:

Yeah, of course.

SS:

I've read her books. I didn't even. . . . I knew about the other restaurant, but I didn't know about AOC because I'm not in LA. And also, I should be having more natural curiosity, but I don't. Anyway, it turns out she's been buying for years. She's a big fan. She does amazing dinner using recipes from the book. It was really one of those magical moments like, oh, this is, I've made it and I'd never been to the restaurant. It was terrific.

SM:

It's a great restaurant. It's a really great restaurant.

SS:

Oh, and this is an aside, she's so nice and respectful to that staff. And I've been. . .

SM:

Oh yeah, you've got to be.

SS:

. . . I mean, it's a cliche, the way certain chefs behave, which isn't good, but she's the opposite of that. It was really magical. And I'm sorry. I don't have the chefs, the chefs at the tip of my tongue that were working for her, but they were great. The whole thing. So, there's a lot of chefs, I will say.

SM:

That's wonderful. 

Okay, let's talk about your beans and you mentioned 50 types of beans, which I don't think I could mention. But you talked about them, how tasty and how different each one was and what kind of taste do you get out of them? What kind of will you get vanilla out of this one? Will you get coffee and chocolate you mentioned earlier? Would you get. . . so out of 50 beans or do some of them just taste the same?

SS:

Well, they have. . . . Describing a bean flavor is really rough. Like I do my best.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

But it's definitely a bean when you're doing it. And I'd say Lima beans, all the Phaseolus lunatus have a more vegetable flavor. They, that's why people think they don't like Limas. In fact, I was very invested in hating Lima beans. I thought they were the worst bean on the planet. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

. . . until I had them, you know, new crop in different varieties. It's like, oh. I also hated beets. It's really. . . . I think there are people like myself or just I'm invested in hating something and you've got to get over that. That's really not helping anybody. Because I love beets and Lima beans now. I'm working on rutabagas, they luckily doesn't come up in life worrying about how do you adapt that? But there are subtle flavor things and it's not like you eat Rio Zape and think, ooh, this tastes like a Snickers bar. It's subtle, but you do notice the bean broth, which is free soup really, and it's one reason not to do canned beans, which I used to keep one in for an emergency, but I never used it and I realized it expired six years earlier, so I don't need to do that. Because now with instant pots and pressure cookers, you can do it so fast, I don't really get it. But. . . So, with the liquid you get free soup. There's a couple like I have the goat and Good Mother Stallard that with nothing else you stick. What is this broth? It's just incredible. And you can cook rice with it. So, I always make sure there's plenty of liquid when I'm cooking them. But then others have a super creamy texture. Some are slightly. . . . There's one called Christmas Lima and it has a chestnut texture. So, it's slightly grainy.

SM:

Wow.

SS:

Not in an off putting way at all. So, and it's got a kind of a beefy broth. And I always say that's a great entry level bean for people who are trying to cut back and eat more vegetables or if they date a vegetarian and they're kind of in a crisis all the time. Christmas Limas is a great bean, I'd say.

SM:

I love beans, so I'm not going to have any problem with that. I absolutely adore them.

Before we move on to some history, I'd love you to talk about your business, because you mentioned it earlier and you were saying, well, I don't think we were, you know, the one who had beans boom everywhere. But in America, you are. You have other people who've come on since. And, do you think, and we're going to talk about “The Bean Book” as well here. Do you think that your business is becoming popular as more people are eating beans and trying beans and, you know, would they know you through that?

SS:

At the AOC dinner, we had a lot of people. I’m just. . . I haven't had it. They say the unexamined life is not worth living. I haven't gotten there yet. Like I really haven't taken a good victory lap over all this because we're just so busy working. And at the AOC dinner, there were people that were like shaking because they were meeting me. I'm like, oh my god, this is so weird.

SM:

I love that. I love this.

SS:

It was so sweet. And like, mean, you should pick a better celebrities to follow. But and I think part of it is, especially for. . . . Well, it's for a lot of us. No one's marketing to us. It's all what's the latest superhero movie franchise? The main is this or art isn't interesting that Kardashians are doing this health procedure or whatever. And it's like it's not at no one. I feel like no one markets to me except for me. And that's been my thing is, like with the logo, when I open my pantry, what do I want to see? And I didn't want to see something ugly. And with that logo, I went to a couple of designers and I was so broke because I bootstrapped this whole thing with the money. But they were kept making it too vodeo-do or too campy or whatever. And it's like, you know what, I'm just going to learn Photoshop. So, I designed the label and the picked the font and did all that myself because it was cheap for one or go value oriented, and I couldn't. . . . And it's not the designers fault I couldn't express what it was so I thought it just easier just to do it.

SM:

When did people start to recognize your branding? Because I always. . . . When I'm walking past, if I'm in Sprouts or I'm going to those kinds of places, I'll often see them by the till. And I will look and I go, that's Rancho Gordo. I said, this is fantastic. And because I know you in a way, that always makes me, it's an odd thing, but it makes me feel proud.

SS:

Aww, thank you.

SM:

But do you to tell people what the, what the brand looks like?

SS:

Well, first of all, I just say we've never paid for placement. So that's the store either loving what we're doing or. . .

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

. . . they're doing for themselves. So, that's really heartening to hear. But it's a woman, you know, licking her lips after she's probably had a bowl of Rancho Gordo beans. And we've had some people say it's the most disgusting, sexual thing. I'm like, oh my God, we got to get a life here. And so. . . .

SM:

Yeah, it's not, I don't think of it like that.

SS:

And I didn't want to be stuck with an overtly Mexican theme because I'm not Mexican and beans are universal in the culinary world. So I, and I, but I love Mexican stuff, but I didn't want to have a guy in a serape and a sombrero taking a nap by a cactus with a donkey in the background.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

And you know, there are many, many Mexicos and there's many Californias, many, all of this. And she just cracked me up. So, I thought that would be funny. And I thought when I opened my pantry, I'd love to see her, especially many bags of her. So that's where that came from.

SM:

Aww, I love that.

SS:

The start of that when I, well. . .

SM:

I think you had or-

SS:

I'll tell you where. . . . The first book, how that got published in 2008, because we weren't doing that much business yet. But Chronicle Books, and there was a famous editor there named Bill LeBlond. . .

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

. . . who really focused on food books. He went ahead and said, yes, let's go ahead and do a book called “Heirloom Beans,” which, so that came out in 2008. So, he probably decided two years before because it takes so long to put a book together.

SM:

No, of course.

SS:

That was one level. Then the New Yorker. So, oh, I'm sorry to backtrack, but we have something called Bean Club, which. . .

SM:

Oh.

SS:

. . . I was around. . . . And here in Napa, we heard about another wine club and I thought, oh my God, who needs another stupid wine club? There's so many. They're wonderful. And I'm a member of some world, but I thought, another wine club with some generic pretend Tuscan winery or whatever. You know what would be so funny? Let's do a Bean Club. I think that would be so stupid and funny. Well, all these years later, there's 26,000 people in it.

SM:

What?

SS:

So, four times a year, we have to ship 26,000 boxes to these people. But. . .

SM:

How much do they pay you for that?

SS:

I think they're not bad. It's like $49, I think.

SM:

Wow.

SS:

Yeah.

SM:

That's, I mean, it's pretty good. I've not, I might have to go and join that, you know, I think that's a fantastic thing.

SS:

Well, there's a wait list of 15,000 to join.

SM:

Oh, okay, I won't go and join that.

[Laughter]

SS:

I know a guy. I can help if you want. But you can also just go to the website and order what you want when you want. But anyway, one of the Bean Club members was a writer for New Yorker and he did a profile and I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Well, he went to Mexico with me. He met my business partners there. He came to Napa, came to my house and then it takes them a long time. I didn't know how this all works. But there's like a 12-page profile on me in the New Yorker.

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

And that was totally our customer at that point, especially. And that took us somewhere. But then COVID, we tripled in sales because people were home making sourdough bread and cooking beans. And we'd had a name. And I think it really, it's sad. And I didn't enjoy it because we were working two shifts, you know. Everyone was panicking and panic buying. And there's no joy in that. So. But we did triple, but we never went down. So, we. . . . I mean not to brag, but every year we've increased between 10 and 25%. We've never had a year lower and during COVID we tripled.

SM:

Oh wow.

SS:

So, it's been an amazing ride.

SM:

Wow. That is, that is. . . .

SS:

And then, this is silly too, sorry I'm ranting.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

But CBS Morning is a show I had never heard of in my life. It's one of the most popular long running, you know, network shows. And they wanted to do a story and I'm like, oh okay, that's fine. So, they did a really good story. And I thought, you know, it's CBS. So, we should probably get a couple hundred extra gift boxes because people might see it and want to do that. Well, it was 16,000 orders in one day. And we did, and it ruined us because it was around Christmas. It's wild. So that was a big one too. But I also think this book now is like, this is going to be the next thing to elevate us.

SM:

I don't say this because I come from publishing, I work for Penguin, I work for all kinds of businesses and this is one of the most beautiful books I have ever seen. The stories are great, the pictures are great, everything about it is fantastic.  You mentioned 50 types of beans. How many do you think there are and where do they all come from? Because I remember reading something in the history of the Roman Empire, something like that. And someone are going, they carried beans with them. And I went, but, surely beans come from South America. And. . . . But I've never understood that and I've never really bothered to find it out.

SS:

Well, they were probably were Favas, is the thing.

SM:

Ah.

SS:

And I, Kate Hill, who's an expert on cassoulet in France. . .

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

. . . she talked about how the original cassoulet was Fava beans. . .

SM:

Oh.

SS:

. . . which is nasty compared to what they ended up getting. I mean, it's. . . . I mean, the Tarbais and cocoa beans are much nicer, I think. So, they would have been Fava beans. But with trade routes, at that point, there's probably also lentils and garbanzos.

SM:

Yep.

SS:

So, they did have legumes. They weren't what we probably know as a bean though, is what I would. . . .

SM:

OK, that makes it a lot more interesting then when I read that. So, I love that lentils and I, well, coming from India, I love. . . well, my father coming from India, I love eating, you know, dals and things like that, particularly red lentil dals.

SS:

So, when I was 17, I'm gonna completely ignore what she's saying.

SM:

No, no, you could tell us anything you want.

SS:

I decided, and I grew up in Marin County, which in the 70s, which was a certain kind of place. But my friend and I decided to go to India, because we were gonna find God. And my. . .  It was between my junior and senior year in high school. So, I was 17, and I worked for the summer, I sold my piano, and we went to India. Which of course, wherever you go, there you are.  But I had this amazing experience. And we also decided we didn't get along so well. We liked each other a lot, but it was like, you know what? I want to go somewhere and you want to go somewhere else. So, I went south and I went to Madras. And I'm sorry, I don't know what the real name is now, but everything's, what is Madras now? I mean, it's the real name. Yeah. Sorry.

SM:

Yeah, can't actually now you've told me, you've said it. I've been there and is it Bangalore? I can't remember.

SS:

Anyway, and I look back, I asked my mother at one point, what were you thinking? I was 17 on my own in India. And she said, oh yeah, I was going to tell you no, like she knew, but I was very responsible. I wasn't a wild guy. But I remember going to a beach town called Mahabalapuram and they had temples on the beach. was just so beautiful. And I, but I was by myself and I found this hall, and there were bunch of men lined up to go in. So, I just went and you sit down at these long tables, they put a banana leaf down, someone comes and gives you rice, and then they slop these different dals on and you eat them with your hands.

SM:

Yeah, yeah.

SS:

And it changed my life, the different dals you got. And there were probably three or four, there probably, I don't even remember if it was vegetarian or not. It was the yellow dal that just freaked me out. And I thought. . . .

SM:

Oh yeah, I think they are pretty much, I mean, not in Goa because they eat a lot of vindaloo and pork which came over from Portugal. But anyway, that's by the by. But the lentil dals really tend to be vegetarian. But oh.

SS:

And I think sometimes they're peas too, right? Some of the dals?

SM:

Lot of peas. Yeah.

SS:

Yeah, it just was, and I remember just being 17. I'm independent. I can do anything now. I had a mostly unhappy self-inflicted childhood and it was like, oh okay. I always knew if I got rid of the adults, I'd be okay. Isn't that funny?

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

I'm gonna be all right as soon as the adults are gone. I can take care of things. So, I did. But anyway, so I had this love of Indian dal, and India too.

SM:

Well, those are just, you know, they're my favorite and I'm always cooking dishes here in my kitchen. I'm always cooking Indian food. I'll have to send you some of the recipes if. . . .

SS:

I know I love that.

SM:

I'll send them to you.

So, let's just talk through some of the history because there's supposed to be a history show, but I've had so much fun just talking to you.

SM:

Why do you think people kind of started eating what are seeds? Was it because they were. . . they got dry and then they were easy to transport or was it some other reason?

SS:

Well, it's transport and store and you know you could eat it at all the different stages. So, when you plant a bean in the ground, you get a plant, which actually you can eat in certain parts of Mexico. They don't need a ton of butter, but they eat the buttered baby plant. So, when it just first comes up and gets its first new set of leaves, they will. . . . At the end of the season, if there's a lot of them, they will cook that with butter. It's absolutely delicious. Then it gets a flower. The flower is edible. The runner beans have big, cheap, tawdry, lipstick-colored flowers. And actually in England, I think they grow them as a decorative, the scarlet runner beans. Do you know that?

SM:

Oh, okay.

SS:

Yeah. And I've talked to English people who had no idea you could eat them and they will sort of naturalize in their area. And then you get a string bean basically. So, you could eat that.

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

Although, you have to de-string it and look, cause it's not like the modern varieties that are built for that. But then. . . .

SM:

Oh, that's, no, carry on.

SS:

So, then they start to dry and get bigger. And there's certain beans that you would call shelling beans. And that's where you can shell them and eat them fresh. And you know, at the farmer's market, that's where all of a sudden the chefs would stop buying my beans, but only for about a week or two, because they realized how expensive it was to have someone sit there and shell them and how few you got for all the work. They always came back. And then finally. . .

SM:

And yeah.

SS:

. . .you let them dry. And then we cut them at the root, at the base of the plant and have them dry in the fields till they're about 12 % moisture. And then there's this Rube Goldberg machine that shakes like crazy and the plants go up it and they shake them enough so that the beans fall off the plants. And then the pods go in one area and the beans go in another. And they're still shake. . . . With gravity tables and shaking in the fields, which is why you get dirt. Cause about 90 % of the cleaning happens in the field. And then the pods get chopped up and go right back into the soil as green manure. And this is true for even commercial commodity bean growing. So, it's really, aside from the health benefits and the flavor, it's a very green thing because they're actually, they've helped the soil and then you have the dry bean and you can put them in your pocket and go to Istanbul and then maybe somewhere else. And you could just, it's very romantic. You can just carry on wherever you go. And then the different varieties would change based on this bean is doing really well with this altitude or this number of daylight hours or whatever. So, you save those. So, they actually acclimate to the different areas where they're being grown.

SM:

Oh. When we went out recently, we spent three months away and we went around all the ‘stans as they call it, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan. We went to Turkey and that was the area of the Silk Road. And that's where a lot of these beans got kind of, they were brought in from, you know, other areas, and it was fantastic. And we saw them there. But I was going to ask you again then from this. When did Europeans then first. . . . Was this because of the, there's a thing called the Columbian Exchange, which I've talked about a lot on the show. We've done nearly a hundred episodes now, probably more than a hundred. And so, was that because, you know, they came to South America and began to take them back? Not America, because I know they had themselves, but how was that?

SS:

Yes, it was part of the Columbian Exchange. And in fact, I talked about it in the New Yorker article and the wife of the woman who wrote the first book and why I think he even coined that term got in touch with me. She was very happy that she's probably listening to you too.

SM:

Crosby he was called.

SS:

I think that's right. Yeah.

SM:

Yeah that was his name and he was a very famous person.

SS:

So, there were two fonts of beans really. It was Mesoamerica, which would be Central Mexico and around there, and then the Andes. So, and people. . . . Central Mexico is North America. So, it really is, it's here. We're not that far, although it's completely different terrain. But yeah, they started, I mean, it's really easy to trade, but it's so funny when you think of, you know, Italian food without tomato. I mean, you know this, I'm sure you've covered this.

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

Italian food without tomatoes, Indian food without hot chilies, fresh chilies. I mean, that's all. . .

SM:

Which are. . .

SS:

. . . Mesoamerica, we think. Yeah. So, yes, so that would have been. . . . And I think my understanding is they went over on one of the first trade, trading routes.

SM:

And then when we come to the United States or before that even, and I know when I met the people from the Wampanoag, when I went to, there to do an interview, in fact, for this, to the Plymouth Plantation, as it was called then, I. . . . They always had beans there, and they had this thing called the “Three Sisters” where they grew the beans and then they had other things coming with it. So, they had it called the “Three Sisters.”

SS:

Right.

SM:

So, was that, I'm sure you know all of this, but for people watching or listening at home. So, do you find that kind of thing worth kind of focusing on because it is such a, what's the word, such a fascinating system.

SS:

It is. I've tried it at home and it doesn't work for me very well. So, it's definitely an indigenous American kind of thing. In Mexico, they would talk about the milpa or the vegetable field. And, you know, they're here, it's what corn, beans and squash.

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

But in Mexico, I'd say it's corn, beans and chilies are really the power bit. I think for a home garden, if you were trying to do it, you know, beans, you need a lot of beans.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

So, going up a corn stalk is not gonna. . . . I mean, it would give you green beans for the season and it's a nice thing to do. But I learned early that if we're gonna make any money, we have to do quantity. So, we don't do that. And we actually let the beans just flop in the fields. We don't stake them or anything. But yeah, it's a valid thing. But they probably came from Mesoamerica, but they travel so well and you know, the American Indians, the indigenous people were killer with corn and beans and squash. And I think most of those things probably were imported because there weren't, it really was foraging wild greens before people were doing trade.

SM:

Wow.

SS:

You're probably gonna get calls and letters saying, no, no, no, no. But that's, I'm pretty sure that's how that goes. But they were brilliant at breeding them. We have this one red bean called Hidatsa and it's from the Hidatsa tribe. And it was sort of lost and we grew it and it is a winner and we're doing trials now to see if we can bring it back.

SM:

Oh, fantastic.

I hope they've been useful for you because it's often you, you're just dealing with beans and you're sending them out and you're not. . . . And I think coming back to where they are and you're going, these are really fantastic things and you're not just putting them in a packet and sending them out, which, you know. . . .

SS:

No, that's been from the word go. I mean, I, I hope it's clear. I love them and I'm really lucky. We're lucky we found each other because they helped me and I think I've helped them. So, it's a really stupid business idea. Like, oh I know we're going to start a company doing heirloom beans in a world that doesn't care about them. So, but yeah, it's, I'm sort of full of propaganda, but it's sincere, is what I'd say.

SM:

Oh, I absolutely love that. So, what I thought we'd do if you could give me at the end of this before we move on to some other kind of fun questions, if you could give me and I know this is going to be hard because, you know, you have so many recipes you have in this book, you have so many recipes, but if you could give me five of your favorite bean recipes, whether that's, you know, if I mean, I love to do rajma curry, which is from India and it's, it's red kidney beans, which is just, it's gorgeous.

SS:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

It's absolutely gorgeous. But I know this isn't going to be easy for you, but I want five. I'm holding up five fingers of anything that you like to cook at home.

SS:

Okay, well.

SM:

And I want that to go with me and then we'll go into the final question.

SS:

I will say, okay, in this book, that I can say two that is like, I'm really proud of those. One is the chili sin carne. So, it's the vegetarian chili.

SM:

Ooh.

SS:

And if you're in Texas, they tell you, you. . . beans do not belong in chili and whatever.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

And bean chili is not good. I. . . like. . . there is a Midwestern version of chili where the spoon stands straight up. I don't care for it. Although I don't. . . I'm sure if I grew up with it. I’d like it and you know maybe it's like beets but. . . . And so I do get the Texas aversion to that because people then abuse beans. But I think the bigger issue is tomatoes. Tomatoes don't belong in a chili. You. . . . It should be chilies so they're dried chilies and once you add tomato you have a nice spicy vegetarian stew which is really. . . . And maybe it's delicious but I just don’t call it chili just like everything that's a dip now is a hummus whether it has garbanzos in it or everything in a V-shaped glass is a martini, even though there's no gin.

SM:

Trust me.

SS:

So, all those things. But so, the chili sin carne, I think, a Texan would be. . . I would serve it to a Texan. They'd still complain because that's the way they are.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

But it's a great, great dish.

SM:

Okay.

SS:

The other one, I love cooking in clay. And Paula Wolfert kind of got me on it. So, another weird obsession. And I even have a group on Facebook called, “Cooking with Clay,” with thousands of people who all share their clay pot things. But I made it tagine and I simply did a classic chicken tagine but I replaced the chicken with garbanzos and did almost nothing else. And it's like, and I'm, I love chicken. This is even better. But the, you know, preserved lemon and the spices and cooking in the clay tagine, which you don't have to, it was really one of my favorites. But even though I've written. . .

SM:

You've got three more.

SS:

Well, I've written eight books, but I will tell you, Sunday night, you cook a pot of beans and you say, oh look, I have, what are we going to do? Domingo Rojo, which is a red bean. And then you cook it Sunday night. The first bowl, you chop up raw onion, you squeeze some lime and you have that just for you. And I don't think anything gets better. But the next, you have a family, you've got kids, you're having friends over the next night. You make a soup. And there's a million soups you can make. And one really easy thing to do, it's based on a Mexican, Tarascan soup, but you do a third bean broth, a third chicken broth, and a third tomato. And then you put anything in the vegetable crisper you've got waiting to go, and then you have a fabulous soup. And if you fry croutons, stick them on the top, and it seems like you worked. But then it's like you still got more, so then you make a salad, and you don't make a bean salad necessarily, you make a salad and put some beans in it. And then you've got that little bit left. It's like, you know what? I've got some anchovies and onions. So, I'm going to make a puree and you make a dip. So, to make beans, because I want to make chili sin carne say is the backwards way to do it. I think you need to make the beans you have and then figure out you've got tons. And then you also have the security of you've got a pound of beans, which I think, blanking out. So, it’s two cups. So, that's six cups of cooked beans and their broth. Throughout the week, you've always got food. So, that temptation to call the food service to deliver. Forget it. You could just literally do the beans, tortillas, chopped onion and a lime. Or you can do something elaborate. But you don't have an excuse. That's what I say. And with the bean broth, I like at dinner parties before people get there. I put them, I heat it up, put them in shot glasses, squeeze lime, and serve them on a tray just as a starter, just a little quick shot before you go. And people think you've gone in some trouble, but you're using leftovers.

[Laughter]

So, it's kind of fun.

SM:

Oooh. I love when people just describe who. . . . People from the food world and they just describe, and that you. . . . I, I need to go now and get some of my beans. . .

SS:

Okay. My work is done.

SM:

. . . and make that. . .

SS:

I feel very confident.

SM:

. . . yeah no but it's just fantastic. Do you have any more before we squeeze on to our favorite fun questions rather not favorite because they've all been favorite. Sorry, but tell me a couple more.

SS:

Well, I was gonna say there's a great book. I think it's called “An Everlasting Meal” by Tamar Adler. And she talks about when you go to the grocery, you go to the grocery store or the farmers market, cook the food right away. And because you're. . . . If you went on Saturday and Thursday night, you say, now I'm going to make, you know, roast of broccoli, it’s like the broccoli looks like crap. I'm like, it's not worth it. So, you've got all these tools, is what I would say. So, if you cook your vegetables when you get them and roasting is a great way to do it, but actually. . .

SM:

Yeah.

SS:

. . . boiling is completely underrated. Cause then you know you've got that water that you can use. . .

SM:

Oh. Yeah.

SS:

. . . soup and mix that with bean broth. Bean broth is a soup on its own is almost too thick and it's too much. I actually like to cut it either with chicken broth or the vegetable boiling water would be great. So, you can just make stuff up. And I was a single parent, believe it or not, in for a while with a high school kid and he would just go in and make his own lunch. He would say, I remember we'd had the broccoli from the other night. Here's some beans. Here’s some rice and he would just make it himself.

SM:

Oh.

SS:

I'm sure he was buying sodas and chocolate also, but he never told me that part. We pretend that that didn't happen.

SM:

Oh, I love this.

SS:

My food philosophy and it came from her too is like, and Tom Philpott is a good political food writer. And he talked about the exhaustion of having to, you know, you get a new book on Thai food and you buy all these gazillion ingredients and you make this one dish and it's not practical. So, not that you shouldn't do that because that's for fun, but if you're working and it's Tuesday night and you came home late, that's just exhausting.

SM:

It really is.

SS:

It's nice to develop your own pantry and your own style of cooking so that you always have certain things. Like for me, I have dried mushrooms, anchovies. I mean, there's certain things I always have in my pantry. So, I don't really have to think very hard.

SM:

Ugh.

SS:

Because sometimes I don't want to think.

SM:

Oh, that's lovely. You're just making me very hungry now.

SS:

Oh great.

SM:

Anyway, let's ask and I always call them fun questions.

If Steve was a meal, what would it be?

SS:

Well, if it's not stupid, probably leftovers. I, I love a working kitchen that always has great stuff. So, beans would be involved. I truly, in my heart of hearts, I love Mexican food and we haven't even scratched the surface. And growing up in California, I thought because I love burritos, I thought I understood Mexican food, which is idiotic, but that was my reality. But it'd be a full meal with courses is what I would say. I mean, that's the other thing is, as you get older, as one gets older, or at least me, I, there's nothing I like more than a dinner party. I like going out. Okay. But usually it's too expensive, and I resent all these fees and it's like, okay, this was all right. But to have people sitting at your table and you come out with a tray of something and everyone oohs and aahs, and it's like. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

. . . okay, this is, I just love that. And you have really smart conversations, and. . . . Yeah. So.

SM:

Aww. That's, that really does sound like a great thing. So, full meal at home with friends.

SS:

Exactly.

SM:

That's a great idea.

SS:

6 to 8 is also the perfect number, I have found.

SM:

Six to eight. Yeah, no more than yeah, I'd yeah, we did one fairly recently for that for my birthday and it was just great.

SS:

I think so.

SM:

Okay, if Steve had to go back in time to any meal where would that be?

SS:

Well, you know, it would have been great when Cortez came from Spain and he wasn't a very nice guy.

SM:

No.

SS:

But he was fed. He was fed and fed in by the Aztecs in Mexico City. That would have been so great to like, what the hell is, it's a turkey. It seems like something I know, but it's not something I know. All the vegetables. And apparently the stalls were immaculate and just row after row of really interesting ingredients. So, I think it would have really fun to have been fed that diet, the European diet, and then to go and discover all these wonderful things would. . . that'd be a great thing. But stylistically, I prefer the thirties and forties, although I used to enjoy them with more carefree abandonment, but you realize how certain people were treated. It's just like, okay, we have this nostalgia for a time that it wasn't, it was great if you were straight and white, but for the rest of us, it was not really.

SM:

Yes, I, I, I agree with you. But if we're just talking about food and but, even then, but I know you have in your recipe books here, you have a Navy, the, the Civil Rights Navy cake or. . .

SS:

With the black Muslim bakeries maybe being by. . . .

SM:

Yeah, and that is that's something I want to try myself and it is. . . . It, it. . . . I've been reading about it for so long and I've got the recipe there now. So, I'll make sure I. . .

SS:

Good.

SM:

. . . name you all. OK, and this is the final one.

SS:

I was just going say though, when we got up in the Bay Area, they always had your Black Muslim bakery, pinto bean pies all over the place. And I loved them as a kid. And I think, you know, that what's that Rodgers and Hammerstein song, you have to be taught to hate. Like I just like, great, Black Muslims made this pinto bean pie and it's absolutely delicious. And it just was nice because there was no like, Black people made it. There was none of that. It's like, that's the Black Muslim bakery made this pinto bean pie. And it just seemed more casual. And I think that's why when some ugly stuff root its head, I had no idea. And I do now, but it's fascinating.

SM:

Yeah, it really is.

SS:

I think food is what do you call it? Propaganda tool for cultures to get to know each other better.

SM:

Yeah, it is a great cultural too.

And the final one, although after this we'll just get you to name social media and all of that for us. If Steve had to go back in time to see the invention of anything, what would it be?

SS:

Well, if it was non-food, it would be the fountain pen. I have a, you know, talk about weird things I collect. I have a ton of fountain pens and there's a great English company called Yard O Led, you know them?

SM:

Yes I do.

SS:

So, I have a weird, that's where all the profits from the beans went, into Yard O Led, sterling pens. But for me, it would be clay pots really, if it's food related. Like the idea that you could take mud and make something so delicious and it hasn't been bested yet. I mean, that really is the best way to cook beans. It's not the only way. And there's, you can make great beans without it, but there's, if you have a gas stove and a low fired clay pot, you can make magic.

SM:

Oh yeah, well I know when again when we were in Turkey and all those places recently they all have clay pots that they put stuff in and then cook it on the hearth and it was, ooh, it was so fantastic.

SS:

Yeah, it really is.

SM:

Okay and finally just so people know where you know you can be found and all of that can you name you know where you want people to go and look for Rancho Gordo. “The Bean Book,” which is, I'm telling you now, if you don't listen to anything else in this, and you should, but this book is fantastic. It really is. And I'm not just saying that.

SS:

In some way. We. . . They asked us to do it. And I said, Well, okay, we'll just do our greatest hits. We'll just rush this thing out. But as we're doing it, it's like, oh my god, this is not that and it's actually a book that took 23 years to write. I couldn't have written this. When we met, it wouldn't have been the same book. And I also have been buying books and getting really upset. Like, this really should have been a magazine article like the state of modern cookbooks is not good.

SM:

No, it isn't.

SS:

So, I really. . . for the ages. This was my goal. So, I'm thrilled that. . .

SM:

No, this has got. . .

SS:

. . . get it.

SM:

. . . and I'm not just saying this because like I said, I worked in all of, you know, publishing. This is a great book, it really is.

So, tell me finally then what are your social media sites because I'm. . . . You don't want them writing to you unless you do, but do you. . . .

SS:

Oh, no, no, no, it’s fine. Well we are an unusual company in that we have 34 employees now and the customer service people also work on the floor. We do our own fulfillment. We have a warehouse. We're really old fashioned in that sense. So, we even have a toll-free number with that a person answers. You know, if they're super busy in the store, they have to take a message, but they don't. So, you're welcome to call or write and customer service at Rancho Gordo is the best way. And they always get it to me. They don't screen things for me. Well, they do some of the nastier things.

SM:

[Laughter]

SS:

Not many. But if you go to Rancho Gordo dot com where you can purchase, if you're not getting it from your independent, green grocer or we tend to be in a lot of butchers and a lot of cheese shops as well seem to sell them. But we have a newsletter that comes out twice a month. And I base it on the fact that I don't really want to hear from anyone more than twice a month. So, we don't sell it. Sometimes, you know, you'll buy Scotch tape and all of a sudden you're getting every day, guess what? Our new tape needs have been met and it's like, leave me alone. So, we, were very sensitive. We respect your time and there usually is a recipe. Sometimes we talk about events we've done and it's, but you can sign up for that at Rancho Gordo dot com but we're Rancho underscore Gordo at Instagram and Threads and Threads has been really fun and I do it. So, there's not someone speaking for me.

SM:

I'm on there as well and it's really fun actually.

SS:

Yeah. good. I'll follow you. I gave up Twitter X after certain things. So, it's not really my thing. And then we're still on, we have a Facebook page and yeah, so the Facebook page, is there something else? I think we do Pinterest, but I'll be honest, someone else does that. I don't really do that because I don't quite understand it.

SM:

So fantastic. So, you've got all the details if you're listening at home or you're seeing this on YouTube or whatever, you'll get all those. And do, do, do go buy this, “The Bean Book.” It is fantastic. Steve Sando, I'd love to say a huge thank you for you coming on.

SS:

So fun. Well, you and everybody come see us at our store in Napa. So, we have a store where they sample beans and I'm often there. So come see us. It's a great place.

SM:

Fantastic.

OUTRO MUSIC

SM:

Make sure to check out the website associated with this podcast at www.EatMyGlobe.com where we will be posting the transcripts from each episode, along with all the references and resources we used putting the episodes together, in case you want to delve deeper into each subject. There is also a contact button, so please do let us know if there are any subjects that you would like us to cover.

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Thank you and goodbye from me, Simon Majumdar, and we’ll speak to you soon on the next episode of EAT MY GLOBE: Things You Didn’t Know You Didn’t Know About Food.

CREDITS

The EAT MY GLOBE Podcast is a production of “It’s Not Much But It’s Ours” and “Producer Girl Productions.”

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We would also like to thank Sybil Villanueva for all of her help both with the editing of the transcripts and essential help with the research.